Rolling Stone seems to have taken down the audio clips they had posted of the new Dylan interview conducted by Jann Wenner (the founder of Rolling Stone magazine). I’ve made my own amateur transcription of some of it. (I’m going to do something about the whole “religion” question separately — there are some other elements I want to tie into that and it takes time.)

I think it’s informative to look at the transcription; to me, it illustrates the underlying dynamics even more clearly than listening to the interview. This interview, to me, is something like Dylan meeting his arch-nemesis. Wenner’s attempts to pin Dylan down to making some kind of political statement are transparent, and Dylan’s deft parrying of those efforts is something to see. The end result is never really in doubt, I suppose, but it’s funny to watch. This is just one of the five parts that RS had posted in audio form:

Wenner: If you’re going to take the current moment of American history and put it in some kind of historical context, as a student of history, where do you think we are?

Dylan: Ahh, that would be hard to do. Unless you put yourself ten years into the future. It’s not the nature of a song to imply what’s going on under any current philosophy, y’know, anymore than — y’see how can I explain it? — like all the songs that came out of the First and Second World War. You ever notice how lighthearted they were?

Wenner: Hmm, no.

Dylan: Um — well, I mean you just had all these songs, man, they were — if you listen to songs from this period of time, you would think that there’s nothing gloomy on the horizon.

Wenner: Hmm-mmm. Do you think it’s gloomy on the horizon?

Dylan: Um — in what sense do you mean that?

Wenner: (raising his voice) Ah, c’mon!

Dylan: No! You c’mon! What sense do you mean that? If you’re talking about y’know in a political sense?

Wenner: A (inaudible to me) political, spiritual, historical sense. You’re talking about the end of things on this record, y’know you got a very gloomy vision of the world and what’s going on. You say I’m facing kinda the end of my life and I’m looking at all of this and –

Dylan: Aren’t we always doing that?

Wenner: Well –

Dylan: Aren’t we all always doing that?

Wenner: No, some people are trying to avoid it. But I’m trying to interview you –

Dylan: I know –

Wenner: And you’re not being very helpful with this.

Dylan: Jann, have I ever been helpful?

Wenner: Well you have in the past. You gave some really great interviews in the last several years.

Dylan: Yeah. Well, I wasn’t on tour when I was doing them though. I could be fully present for the other interviews, but now, I’m thinking about amps going out and y’know –

Wenner: You don’t have people taking care of that for you?

Dylan: You would hope! But –

Wenner: Yeah! But you can’t find a good road manager — is that the problem here?

Dylan: (laughs)

Wenner: Well, what can I do to get you to take this seriously?

Dylan: (laughs) I’m taking it as seriously as –

Wenner: You’re not!

Dylan: ‘Course I am.

Wenner: But I appreciate –

Dylan: Look, I think y’know, you’re the one who’s here to be celebrated!

Wenner: (laughs)

Dylan: Forty years! Forty years with a magazine that obviously now has — has intellectual recognition. Which — did you ever think that would happen when you started?

Wenner: I — I was –

Dylan: No!

Wenner: I was taking it seriously.

Dylan: You were. Who else was?

Wenner: Well, some people were. (inaudible) around for a while, you took it seriously.

Dylan: Look how far you’ve come. You’re the one to be interviewed here. I mean I want to know just as much from you as want to know from me.

Wenner: Um –

Dylan: I mean I would love to have you on our radio show.

Wenner: I love your radio show by the way –

Dylan: And interview you for an hour.

Wenner: Alright Bob, I’m gonna do that, as soon as we’re done with this. I’m gonna then turn around and we’ll just flip it and do that. The radio show’s great by the way –

Dylan: You’ve seen more music changes than me.

Wenner: Oh please.

Dylan: Oh no no no no please — you please! You’ve seen it all from the top!

Wenner: You’ve seen it –

Dylan: I’ve seen it maybe from not so near the top.

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